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mpf ranking structure and authorized equipment

Discussion in 'Lore Suggestions' started by Tommy, Feb 25, 2019.

?

should the server use this system?

Poll closed Mar 4, 2019.
  1. yes

    16.7%
  2. no

    33.3%
  3. yes, but with minor tweaks (see comments below)

    50.0%
  1. Tommy

    Tommy used to be relevant Moderator Clockwork Customer

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1swpuS-ROX-PanBgRW29B0hn9G7J3jQ5iqRGSBs90dbw/edit?usp=sharing
    from an old google doc i had

    i always thought this was the best - units aren't REQUIRED to be brainwashed and forced into loyalty, which is what the server loved. however, no brainwashing means slower rank progression and no firearms at all. i always like the more simplistic ranking structure, there's no need to get crazy with the "EU! CpT! CpL!" shit. keep it back like the old OA days, just with the 05 added.

    if you vote yes with minor tweaks, either leave comment below with the tweaks or rate agree with the comment that you think should be the tweaking please and thank u
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Songbird

    Songbird ❤️ Staff Member Moderator Legend

    I really wish we just went away with the brainwashing. It might be lore friendly, it theoretically makes sense but it just restricts roleplay so much. Nazi Germany, Soviet Union, DDR had high ranking officers doing fucked up shit and nobody mechanically brainwashed them, so it is plausible the people in high command of the Alliance also just "follow orders."

    I am also not a fan of giving away weapons based on rank, it should be based on necessity. Pull out MP7s/SPAS-12 only when absolutely necessary as the City Administration probably wants to keep up the illusion of, you know, relative safety. This largely depends on the lore direction the server is going to follow though.

    I hate division systems, @Sixx had a good idea on them.


    Aside from all of that, I like the vanilla ranks.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. I don't think it should work like that, for example until rank 03 units will not be asked to get brainwashed, but if they wish to progress it's a must, about the firearms, eh. I don't think brainwashing low ranks is useful, they may be incompetent. But if they reach 04 and are suggested to 03 then they are competent enough. If you don't trust them with firearms give the next rank after 05 a pistol then.
     
  4. Lung

    Lung Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    I agree with the old system (almost) entirely, I've always loved the good old fashioned system. The simplistic ranking structure is tried and true and I've always found to be the best, that way we can be as vanilla as possible. I also don't believe that brainwashing is even necessary.

    This, mainly because they are people not just brainwashed cyborgs. People can be capable of purely disgusting things but still come off as humane. My only gripe is that I wholeheartedly believe that the SeC should be and event based unit, I've seen far too many servers with sectorials always online. And personally I don't find that necessary.
     
  5. Songbird

    Songbird ❤️ Staff Member Moderator Legend

    In one of my servers EpU was as far as I went with the rankings but that is a bit extreme if we want a little bit more diverse CP experience.

    My main problem is the fact that with a lot of interpretations, SeC is an equivalent of a five-star general and then you have him train recruits and patrolling? Or have him do "important Universal Union work," lock him in the cabinet and inevitably that person gets bored and plays another character and suddenly CP loses an important character.

    I feel like we need to redefine high command for it to be the local high command. Sectorial commander is a commander of the specific sector of the city, a small populated sector we are playing in, nothing more. Divisional leader is, well, leader of the division of the CP, and all the CP units on the servers are the members of one division of a larger CP battalion if we are going with the U.S. Army as the reference. No subdivisions for medical units and other stuff. Only one SeC and one (maaaybe two) DvL.

    Thus, SeC will have more opportunities to serve as sort of inspector where it logically makes sense for him to sometimes patrol the city and observe the quality of work as well as be more active in training and day to day operations of the Civil Protection.

    DvL will be the main active guy and participate in most of the action and do most of the decisions. Full freedom to go patrolling the streets with recruits, beat up and arrest citizens, although some DvLs will just consider these actions beneath them.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. duck

    duck Phant0m Legend

    I've never liked brainwashing either. Really limits possibilities. I like the idea of divisions, but maybe instead of a dedicated medical division, units interested in medical work must get a medical certification represented by an M appended to their division.
    Important UU work should be expanded to be something actually meaningful. Instead of "/me does important UU work" it should require doing actual paperwork. Think of a system where DvLs would write daily reports containing any information of interest. Promotions, incidents, observations, suggestions, etc. More than anything, something I think would be cool is a supply-ordering system, where there is a finite amount of supplies that would need to be ordered in advance by the SeC to supply his sector.

    Such a role wouldn't require much IC interaction, so maybe it's for the better that whoever the SeC is, they don't mind not being able to run around the city like a normal unit, because their responsibilities are completely different from a normal unit.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. Songbird

    Songbird ❤️ Staff Member Moderator Legend

    The problem with divisions is they never work properly unless an event or something was directly made for their purpose. Medics are semi-useful sometimes, but all the other divisions are just... useless most of the time. Engineering? Detective? Why can't a normal, trained Civil Protection unit put a combine lock, breach a door, drive an APC or do some basic investigation? Plus, Civil Protection, as a faction, does not need more tools for people to have fun. That's why I really liked @Sixx 's idea where we delegate all of those divisions usually used for CPs to normal citizens, aside from the obvious CP-only stuff.
    I absolutely love this. I have been theorizing for years on how to implement this and make it work and all of the conclusions lead me to the fact that this system would create wonderful roleplaying scenarios. Just like in real life, the sector of the city will only receive limited amount of resources and the sector has to provide both the output and the results to get more resources and also explain where were the resources spent.

    Imagine if there were only 50 boxes of 9mm ammo supplied for two weeks. You have to ration it up throughout the CP units, it will make CP units question whether or not they really want to use the gun and they have to make a report whenever the firearm is discharged just like in real life. It will create accountability, it will create more interesting work for a lot of characters and we can tie in regular citizens in there somewhere. Or imagine very unrealistic, but very cool scenario like in the movie 'Snowpiercer' where they realize that their oppressors have run out of ammo and they start rioting.
     
  8. Rhenz

    Rhenz Who needs a map? Staff Member Moderator Legend

    I don't think there should be a SeC, CmD, etc. Too much power and authority.

    I find that structuring it similarly to a basic military (Pvt > Cpl > Sgt, etc) would make the most sense in their world despite the vanilla implications. I would go as far as to say that the rankings would define those who show leadership qualities and would lead patrol squads and the like as opposed to just having a 'division leader'. I think scrapping the concept of 'divisions' and just having characters take courses on specific topics (e.g explosives or how to repair some important structure or what have you) is more expansive.

    And double yes on a supply day. Sounds like a great way to add more to the role.
     
  9. Songbird

    Songbird ❤️ Staff Member Moderator Legend

    There is a second route we can go with the Combine hierarchy. I have seen it on Lemonpunch in 2015 and it is also worked wonderfully.

    There is 05 to 01 (Pvt to Sgt basically) and that is it. Normal CP units who applied, as well as experienced staff members, can play as an Overwatch scanner and they basically issue commands and do bunch of Overwatch Dispatch stuff, as well as give out points to be used for promotion for completing tasks. The leaders for squads are either assigned by Overwatch dispatch either if one of the units requests it or just however the Overwatch sees fit or it just falls back to senior rank officers.

    It is extremely vanilla HL2 lore friendly because that is basically how CP officers in HL2 work. There are no scary DvL working around. Literally anyone can progress through ranks. It is an incredibly inclusive system and it is a very simple one as well.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Duspende_

    Duspende_ Legend Clockwork Customer

    The issue with a lot of more bare bones hierarchies is that they don't allow for a lot of advancement. You quickly hit the max rank and you can't progress further, thus become deincentivized from applying yourself fully.

    On the topic of divisions, I've tried to get rid of them for a while and replace them with a certification system (Attached)
    Screenshot_20190225-085446_Docs.jpg
     
  11. duck

    duck Phant0m Legend

    I don't think any of those should be restricted by divisions, and the divisions are only as useless as we make them. Just as we could make the SeC's responsibilities more interesting, we can do the same for divisions. The lemonpunch system also sounds cool to me, though.
    Yeah it really adds a lot of interesting elements to gameplay. Like if all 50 boxes of ammo were gone but only 44 were in the logs that units filled out, the SeC would be a bit curious of what happened to those 6 boxes of ammo that are now unaccounted for. Did someone forget to log them? Is someone stealing? Who possesses the ammo now? As far as he knows, they're just gone. Small numbers probably won't matter, but imagine if there was maybe something like 25 boxes of ammo that aren't logged. He'd probably want to get to the bottom of that. Perhaps it includes launching an internal investigation like a weapons inspection of every unit to see if someone is hoarding ammo, a campaign to make units aware that they need to remember to log their supply usage, or reprimanding leaders to make them enforce the standard upon their subordinates.
     
  12. Duspende_

    Duspende_ Legend Clockwork Customer

    Actual resource management has always been the dream tbh.

    Make resources artificially scarce, then impose requirements on units to get more.

    I've always been a fan of the idea behind the SeC/CmD literally working with budgets and having to discuss budgeting with the CA
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Duspende_

    Duspende_ Legend Clockwork Customer

    Sorry for DP; But also the CWU working with stock and having to take inventory. Instead of a magical salesman, they have a warehouse where they get supplies every week (possible work cycle moving the supplies from the train to the warehouse), and then having to keep stock of their inventory with a list.

    If something is missing, the CWU can investigate.
     
  14. Songbird

    Songbird ❤️ Staff Member Moderator Legend

    The resource system could provide a second meaning to HL2RP.

    It will also extend to citizens and other organizations and that is where it will get interesting. Bribery, embezzlement, corruption should be made available as an option and also possible to track down and prosecute. Greedy warehouse workers who "lost a shipment," corrupt hospital official who sells medical supplies to the Resistance on the side, incompetent Civil Protection unit who lost his equipment and either needs to come clean or come up with something on his report. It creates so much roleplay opportunities if done correctly.
     
  15. Duspende_

    Duspende_ Legend Clockwork Customer

    First you need to make money matter.
     
  16. Rhenz

    Rhenz Who needs a map? Staff Member Moderator Legend

    I was meaning to imply that the ranks should be notated as something similar as opposed to the 'i5' or '05' nomenclature. I do like the idea of squad leads or something similar thereof that will issue commands to ground units (even if they're also normal ground units with some form of authority).

    This is the very thing I was thinking. Have certifications/qualifications instead of generalized 'divisions'.

    Not all that off topic, but has anyone tried a reverse ranking system that goes from, hypothetically, 01 to whatever in ascending order? 01 to 05 could be fairly easy in comparison to 05-07 where it requires more qualifications or 'promotion points' or 'time in grade' or what have you. This potentially removes the capped feeling and gives the incentive to continue applying yourself if you could hypothetically promote endlessly.
     
  17. Duspende_

    Duspende_ Legend Clockwork Customer

    Conceptually it seems like it could work, cognitively I think it'll make any kind of progress seem trivial.

    Maybe if you do it in stages.

    01-07, OfCi1-OfCi5, Rank Leader, EpUi1-EpUi3
     
  18. Rhenz

    Rhenz Who needs a map? Staff Member Moderator Legend

    Sounds solid to me. I am particularly fond of the 'rank leader'/'squad leader' type of position, but I do know it's limitations in text roleplay.
     
  19. intention ranks i5-i1, rankleaders and dispatch responsible for unit management, giving SC or CE

    all units i5-i1 are equal, an i5 = i1, an i3 = i4, squad lead is assigned to the first unit in a TAG-PT (tactical assault gear patrol team) and only has control over his respective units until its disbanded

    units are given 9mm and batons, basic ballistic protection (no fucking kevlar tier III horseshit) with i2+ able to utilize mp7s for a lil extra firepower when shit isnt hittin the fan

    units are untrained and thuggish, giving them the freedom to act as they please, inexperienced units learn from those above them

    no special divisions, medically trained units (read: carrying fucking medigel) are designated with a simple first aid cross on the front of the ballistic vest (no epicly different uniforms/20 different variants of horseshit)

    no engineers (read: engiqueers) because they're unnecessary
     

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